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	<title>Comments for Mark Foreman&#039;s Blog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://markforeman.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>A fun blog about science, mostly chemistry but sometimes some other stuff</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 11:07:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The health condition of the Fukushima Children in Ginza, Tokyo . by jeroenimus</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/the-health-condition-of-the-fukushima-children-in-ginza-tokyo/#comment-1061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeroenimus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 11:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=2302#comment-1061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the extensive answer. Having heard that Cesium is piling up in the marine food chain (plankton to small fish etc) and knowing fish (sushi) is a big part of the japanese diet that does give reason for concern though. As far as I know it&#039;s unclear how much radioactive cesium has found it&#039;s way into the open sea due to the extensive flushing/cooling and leaking of the reactor. I&#039;ve heard reliable reports of fish being captured 100 miles off the Fukushima Coast that are contaminated with the above mentioned Cesium.

Although it is a reason for concern I do concur with you that overreaction is far from useful in tackling this problem. Exposure from natural (as you say in some places relativly high) and medical sources is something the general public is unaware of. Seeing things in perspective is therefore a lot harder.

It&#039;s a shame that a lot of experts (we have to rely on due to the complicated nature of assessing the threat levels here) are influenced by commercial and/or idiological reasons to understate or overstate the actual threat.
TEPCO itself is a infamous example herein.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the extensive answer. Having heard that Cesium is piling up in the marine food chain (plankton to small fish etc) and knowing fish (sushi) is a big part of the japanese diet that does give reason for concern though. As far as I know it&#8217;s unclear how much radioactive cesium has found it&#8217;s way into the open sea due to the extensive flushing/cooling and leaking of the reactor. I&#8217;ve heard reliable reports of fish being captured 100 miles off the Fukushima Coast that are contaminated with the above mentioned Cesium.</p>
<p>Although it is a reason for concern I do concur with you that overreaction is far from useful in tackling this problem. Exposure from natural (as you say in some places relativly high) and medical sources is something the general public is unaware of. Seeing things in perspective is therefore a lot harder.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame that a lot of experts (we have to rely on due to the complicated nature of assessing the threat levels here) are influenced by commercial and/or idiological reasons to understate or overstate the actual threat.<br />
TEPCO itself is a infamous example herein.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Radioactive waste from wind power by Jeremie</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/radioactive-waste-from-wind-power/#comment-1050</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 19:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=2306#comment-1050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am very much interested in Nuclear Waste management (fuel recycling) topics. Thanks for this post, and I wish to learn more from you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very much interested in Nuclear Waste management (fuel recycling) topics. Thanks for this post, and I wish to learn more from you!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Update on your new best friend by Mud in Fukushima &#124; Mark Foreman&#039;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/update-on-your-new-best-friend/#comment-1049</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mud in Fukushima &#124; Mark Foreman&#039;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 15:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=1987#comment-1049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is perfectly reasonable in terms of chemistry, I have been saying since the accident occurred that the cesium will stick to soil minerals. I would say that it is [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is perfectly reasonable in terms of chemistry, I have been saying since the accident occurred that the cesium will stick to soil minerals. I would say that it is [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The health condition of the Fukushima Children in Ginza, Tokyo . by Mark Foreman</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/the-health-condition-of-the-fukushima-children-in-ginza-tokyo/#comment-1046</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Foreman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 May 2013 05:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=2302#comment-1046</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr Foreman replies

&lt;em&gt;Children vs Adults&lt;/em&gt;

I hold the view that for biological reasons that children should be subject to a set of radiological protection rules which are stricter than those imposed on adults. For example UK and Swedish law both quite rightly have a minimum age at which a person can be a radiation worker. Also a trainee between the ages of 16 and 18 has to be on a more restrictive set of radiation rules than an adult.

This is due to the fact that a child has a longer life expectancy and because their cells are dividing more quickly. For example I know for the induction of female breast cancer that between the mid teens and the mid twenties that a girl / woman is more sensitive than a woman above the age of 30.

&lt;em&gt;Occupational vs evacuation dose limits&lt;/em&gt;

But it is important not to fixate on radiation and ignore all other things. In Japan there is a problem. The occupational limit for a child in the UK and Sweden will be set at 1 mSv per year. This is because a child is always treated as a member of the general public for radiation protection law.

To my mind this law is about exposure of the child at school or if the child takes on a part time job. For example if I have a 14 year old who serves in a watch and clock shop. Then we should apply the 1 mSv limit, this could mean that if the doserate in the shop (due to radium containing watches) is sufficiently high that he/she will get more than a 1 mSv dose (above background) then the shop work is illegal on radiation grounds.

But while it is reasonable to apply this very low limit to occupational doses, I would argue that the dose limit for considering relocation of the general public could be set higher. If we relocate a person (evacuate) then a new home will be needed for the person. Also a great disruption to the person&#039;s life will occur. We need to weigh up the risk due to radiation against the other risks. As a result the government in Japan have decided to set the lower limit for some types of relocation at 20 mSv.

This has sparked some outrage and court cases, but when I looked today at a randomly chosen news &lt;a href=&quot;http://rt.com/news/koriyama-radiation-japan-fukushima-403/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; the doses which the children were being exposed to each year (2.2 mSv) from the accident are low. This is about the same as a typical child living in the UK. If the child has no other artificial radiation exposure then I hold the view that the level of risk does not justify the changes required when a person is relocated.

&lt;em&gt;High background areas around the world&lt;/em&gt;

The high background in Iran is not unique, in some areas of India, China and Brazil the natural background level is very high. So I think the idea that the Iranian government have covered up disease for political reasons can be discounted.

&lt;em&gt;Radioactivity in the environment from the Fukushima accident&lt;/em&gt;

The worst radioisotopes in Japan released by the Fukushima accident were the iodines (I-131, I-132 etc), these have decayed away long ago. A tiny amount of activity (I-129) would have been released but this is not a large threat to public health, it also allows years later the spread of I-131 to be reconstructed for public health investigations.

The current threat in Japan to the general public is due to cesium, the good news is that the cesium has a short biological half life in humans. This means that cesium does not build up in the human body, with a suitable choice of diet a person can avoid having radioactive cesium building up inside them.

Cesium does not enter bones and act as a calcium mimic, instead it is spread evenly through the whole body. On the otherhand strontium becomes part of the bones, as a result strontium-90 is more dangerous than cesium-137. But the good news is that at Fukushima very little strontium was released.

The external dose due to cesium needs to be controlled by cleaning up the environment, as cesium is not very mobile in soil it will be mostly in the top layer of the soil. Either the top layer should be removed or if the soil is mixed up then the external threat will be reduced and the level of cesium in grass will be lowered.

Farming needs to be altered for some years to prevent the transfer of cesium from soil to humans via food. One promising method of controlling cesium in the food chain is to use Prussian blue, this is cesium binding agent which can be used to decontaminate farmyard animals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Foreman replies</p>
<p><em>Children vs Adults</em></p>
<p>I hold the view that for biological reasons that children should be subject to a set of radiological protection rules which are stricter than those imposed on adults. For example UK and Swedish law both quite rightly have a minimum age at which a person can be a radiation worker. Also a trainee between the ages of 16 and 18 has to be on a more restrictive set of radiation rules than an adult.</p>
<p>This is due to the fact that a child has a longer life expectancy and because their cells are dividing more quickly. For example I know for the induction of female breast cancer that between the mid teens and the mid twenties that a girl / woman is more sensitive than a woman above the age of 30.</p>
<p><em>Occupational vs evacuation dose limits</em></p>
<p>But it is important not to fixate on radiation and ignore all other things. In Japan there is a problem. The occupational limit for a child in the UK and Sweden will be set at 1 mSv per year. This is because a child is always treated as a member of the general public for radiation protection law.</p>
<p>To my mind this law is about exposure of the child at school or if the child takes on a part time job. For example if I have a 14 year old who serves in a watch and clock shop. Then we should apply the 1 mSv limit, this could mean that if the doserate in the shop (due to radium containing watches) is sufficiently high that he/she will get more than a 1 mSv dose (above background) then the shop work is illegal on radiation grounds.</p>
<p>But while it is reasonable to apply this very low limit to occupational doses, I would argue that the dose limit for considering relocation of the general public could be set higher. If we relocate a person (evacuate) then a new home will be needed for the person. Also a great disruption to the person&#8217;s life will occur. We need to weigh up the risk due to radiation against the other risks. As a result the government in Japan have decided to set the lower limit for some types of relocation at 20 mSv.</p>
<p>This has sparked some outrage and court cases, but when I looked today at a randomly chosen news <a href="http://rt.com/news/koriyama-radiation-japan-fukushima-403/" rel="nofollow">article</a> the doses which the children were being exposed to each year (2.2 mSv) from the accident are low. This is about the same as a typical child living in the UK. If the child has no other artificial radiation exposure then I hold the view that the level of risk does not justify the changes required when a person is relocated.</p>
<p><em>High background areas around the world</em></p>
<p>The high background in Iran is not unique, in some areas of India, China and Brazil the natural background level is very high. So I think the idea that the Iranian government have covered up disease for political reasons can be discounted.</p>
<p><em>Radioactivity in the environment from the Fukushima accident</em></p>
<p>The worst radioisotopes in Japan released by the Fukushima accident were the iodines (I-131, I-132 etc), these have decayed away long ago. A tiny amount of activity (I-129) would have been released but this is not a large threat to public health, it also allows years later the spread of I-131 to be reconstructed for public health investigations.</p>
<p>The current threat in Japan to the general public is due to cesium, the good news is that the cesium has a short biological half life in humans. This means that cesium does not build up in the human body, with a suitable choice of diet a person can avoid having radioactive cesium building up inside them.</p>
<p>Cesium does not enter bones and act as a calcium mimic, instead it is spread evenly through the whole body. On the otherhand strontium becomes part of the bones, as a result strontium-90 is more dangerous than cesium-137. But the good news is that at Fukushima very little strontium was released.</p>
<p>The external dose due to cesium needs to be controlled by cleaning up the environment, as cesium is not very mobile in soil it will be mostly in the top layer of the soil. Either the top layer should be removed or if the soil is mixed up then the external threat will be reduced and the level of cesium in grass will be lowered.</p>
<p>Farming needs to be altered for some years to prevent the transfer of cesium from soil to humans via food. One promising method of controlling cesium in the food chain is to use Prussian blue, this is cesium binding agent which can be used to decontaminate farmyard animals.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The health condition of the Fukushima Children in Ginza, Tokyo . by jeroenimus</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/the-health-condition-of-the-fukushima-children-in-ginza-tokyo/#comment-1045</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeroenimus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 May 2013 21:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=2302#comment-1045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t seen the film you&#039;ve linked to yet, but I&#039;d like to make a few remarks. If you&#039;re suggesting a kind of placebo effect then I think your arguments might well have some merit in them. Radiation exposure from medical procedures is usually stronger (although for a shorter period) than what those kids are likely to have gone trough...
Just like people can display symptoms of being intoxicated without having had a drop of alcohol due to imagination (and alcohol free beer?) I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if the same would happen in a event with the scale and impact of Fukushima.

However, I&#039;d like to raise a few questions:
How big are the chances the Iranian government would allow stories to leak of kids with radiation poisoning while they&#039;re doing everything in their power to become an independant nuclear power?

What about long(er) term exposure due to inhaled, ingested or other intake of contaminated substances? (we know that the air has been contaminated for a period of time, so is dirt and it&#039;s even found its way into the foodchain of fish)

Because children are still growing and cell division is the most vulnerable time where radiation is concerned, aren&#039;t they more at risk?


In short, I concur with you that things might be exagerated here and there, but isn&#039;t it more than prudent to be extra careful here?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen the film you&#8217;ve linked to yet, but I&#8217;d like to make a few remarks. If you&#8217;re suggesting a kind of placebo effect then I think your arguments might well have some merit in them. Radiation exposure from medical procedures is usually stronger (although for a shorter period) than what those kids are likely to have gone trough&#8230;<br />
Just like people can display symptoms of being intoxicated without having had a drop of alcohol due to imagination (and alcohol free beer?) I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if the same would happen in a event with the scale and impact of Fukushima.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;d like to raise a few questions:<br />
How big are the chances the Iranian government would allow stories to leak of kids with radiation poisoning while they&#8217;re doing everything in their power to become an independant nuclear power?</p>
<p>What about long(er) term exposure due to inhaled, ingested or other intake of contaminated substances? (we know that the air has been contaminated for a period of time, so is dirt and it&#8217;s even found its way into the foodchain of fish)</p>
<p>Because children are still growing and cell division is the most vulnerable time where radiation is concerned, aren&#8217;t they more at risk?</p>
<p>In short, I concur with you that things might be exagerated here and there, but isn&#8217;t it more than prudent to be extra careful here?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Americium by Mark Foreman</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/americium/#comment-1044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Foreman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 18:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=2287#comment-1044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok we will have a bit more]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok we will have a bit more</p>
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		<title>Comment on Americium by Jeremie</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/americium/#comment-1043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 17:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=2287#comment-1043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very short, but interesting post indeed. But I expected to read more about this topic! May I have your email address Professor?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very short, but interesting post indeed. But I expected to read more about this topic! May I have your email address Professor?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Crystals and the home made nuclear reactor by Mark Foreman</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/crystals-and-the-home-made-nuclear-reactor/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Foreman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 06:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=1176#comment-1041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While the solubility of radium in concentrated sulphuric acid might be higher due to the formation of the anionic [Ra(SO4)]^-2, when the concentration of an acid is increased greatly the change in activity coefficents and the failure of sulphuric acid to fully dissociate into hydrogen ions and sulphate anions will make the system more complex. Even if the radium dissolves in the concentrated sulphuric acid when the system is diluted then the radium will reform the insoluble radium sulphate.

Also while some things might be somewhere in the public domain, it is not a good idea for public safety for me to provide an easy to follow trail of breadcrumbs leading to well tested ways of doing some things. For example I have seen in the public domain (open journal) a method of making sarin together with the experimental details, I think that the authors should never have published it. While a well trained phosphorus chemist (I have a PhD in phosphorus chemistry) could work out how to make sarin, I do not think it is right to save a criminal or terrorist the effort of having to optimise the synthesis. I am sure that even a PhD educated P chemist might need to spend a lot of time working out how to get a good yield and purity in each step.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the solubility of radium in concentrated sulphuric acid might be higher due to the formation of the anionic [Ra(SO4)]^-2, when the concentration of an acid is increased greatly the change in activity coefficents and the failure of sulphuric acid to fully dissociate into hydrogen ions and sulphate anions will make the system more complex. Even if the radium dissolves in the concentrated sulphuric acid when the system is diluted then the radium will reform the insoluble radium sulphate.</p>
<p>Also while some things might be somewhere in the public domain, it is not a good idea for public safety for me to provide an easy to follow trail of breadcrumbs leading to well tested ways of doing some things. For example I have seen in the public domain (open journal) a method of making sarin together with the experimental details, I think that the authors should never have published it. While a well trained phosphorus chemist (I have a PhD in phosphorus chemistry) could work out how to make sarin, I do not think it is right to save a criminal or terrorist the effort of having to optimise the synthesis. I am sure that even a PhD educated P chemist might need to spend a lot of time working out how to get a good yield and purity in each step.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder by Mark Foreman</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2011/07/13/cassandra-affective-deprivation-disorder/#comment-1034</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Foreman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 18:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=1085#comment-1034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I protest so much because disableism is unacceptable. I never rant, I hold the view that those who complain against me resort to ranting and emoting.

Being opposed to hate speech and speaking out against it is not ranting, would it be right to denounce Labi Siffre and the late Martin Luther King as ranters for speaking out against bigotry ?

One of my critics commented “I think we can grant people the validity of their feelings”, this is a deeply wrong and immoral attitude to take. I am sure that Anders Behring Breivik and David Copeland had a feeling of hatred and repulsion at leftwingers and gay people, their feelings do not make their despicable deeds any less immoral.

I am opposed to weak and poor academic practise and pseudo-accdemics aping the language of academia for their own personal causes.

If this is the famous Rosemary Radford then I would be glad to enter into a discussion with you by means of email.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I protest so much because disableism is unacceptable. I never rant, I hold the view that those who complain against me resort to ranting and emoting.</p>
<p>Being opposed to hate speech and speaking out against it is not ranting, would it be right to denounce Labi Siffre and the late Martin Luther King as ranters for speaking out against bigotry ?</p>
<p>One of my critics commented “I think we can grant people the validity of their feelings”, this is a deeply wrong and immoral attitude to take. I am sure that Anders Behring Breivik and David Copeland had a feeling of hatred and repulsion at leftwingers and gay people, their feelings do not make their despicable deeds any less immoral.</p>
<p>I am opposed to weak and poor academic practise and pseudo-accdemics aping the language of academia for their own personal causes.</p>
<p>If this is the famous Rosemary Radford then I would be glad to enter into a discussion with you by means of email.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder by Rosemary Radford</title>
		<link>http://markforeman.wordpress.com/2011/07/13/cassandra-affective-deprivation-disorder/#comment-1033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rosemary Radford]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 10:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://markforeman.wordpress.com/?p=1085#comment-1033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark, The old Shakespearian quote: &quot;Me thinks though dost protest too much.&quot; fits your rant here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, The old Shakespearian quote: &#8220;Me thinks though dost protest too much.&#8221; fits your rant here.</p>
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